- Being told to ‘cheer up’ or ‘smile’
- Having comments made about your appearance that you either liked or disliked
- Being assaulted, flashed, touched or followed by a male stranger
- Feeling as though you are being stared at
- Or any other experiences you want to talk about?
Do you want to talk about it?
I am a female PhD student at London Metropolitan University researching women’s experiences of the way men respond to them in public, and particularly how they feel about this.
I am looking for women who have anything to say about this, no matter how big or small, to have a short 1/.2 hr – 1 hour chat with me. If you want to, you’ll also be given a research notebook to record your experiences over the next few weeks. If you agree we will then meet up again to discuss what you found and anything else you want to add about your encounters with men in public.
I believe the great problems are in the streets, and need your voice to understand the meanings you make of everyday experience.
If you are at all interested please get in touch by emailing me at fie0029@my.londonmet.ac.uk and I will send you more details to help you make your decision about whether you want to participate.
I am based in London and can travel to anywhere which is approximately an hour or so outside of the capital.
This study is for women only.
Thank you.
The Great Problems are in the Streets 
How do I participate? I’m based in Leeds but feel so strongly about your research topic I would be willing to travel!
Hi,
Great to hear you’re so interested! I don’t think travel will be necessary (unless you’re already headed down here for some reason) but I’m sure we could arrange a telephone interview? Email me at fie0029@my.londonmet.ac.uk and I’ll send you through more details. Thanks for getting in touch and I really value your input – don’t want to lose it so will work out a way to capture your voice!
I can give a few examples.
Feel free to get in touch!
Hi Kate,
I’ve emailed you over some more info on the project. Thanks for getting in touch so quickly!
I’ve had a lot of experiences like that. Feel free to get in touch.
Hi Andrea – thanks for your interest. Have emailed you directly with more info about the project and myself.
Yes. I would be happy to contribute. I think you’re tapping into lots of unheard voices.
Hi Cordelia,
Have also emailed you directly with some more information. Get in touch if you’ve got any questions or if you’re ready to start!
I have loads of such experiences, as I’m sure have many women. As a disabled woman there are additional aspects that might be interesting for you, such as being kissed when in my mobility scooter and unable to get away, being told by a man that he wouldn’t help me to use the hoist for my scooter as I had to learn to be independent, and then he watched until I completed the task, sometimes changing position for a better view. I hadn’t asked for help btw. He just approached to tell me that I shouldn’t have it etc.
Hi Nell,
What you describe sounds scary and I’d be really interested to add your voice to this project. I’ve emailed you with more details. Fiona
Happy to talk to you. Expecting to be back in UK from Monday. Experiences recently very minor and occasionally even flattering, but did have to hit a guy to get him off me four years ago and experiences in early twenties a bit scary sometimes.
Hi Sarah – thanks for your interest. Have emailed you more details of how to get involved if you want to. F
This is a daily occurrence, it has been for my entire life, since even as a child I was clearly felt to be public property! I would be delighted to be involved in this, please send me more info – btw excellent subject choice! Lets create a groundswell of evidence that cannot be disputed to challenge these damaging social and behaviour norms.
I’ll email you now.
Best wishes
Deborah.
Great to hear it resonates with you!
I’d love to talk about this. I live in Swindon, not too far away from London, but could do a phone interview too.
Hi Nikki – if you’re interested in participating a phone/Skype interview is a possibility. Send me an email at fie0029@my.londonmet.ac.uk if you’re interested and I’ll send over more information.
Hi Cordelia,
I recently went into a chemist and one of the assistants can only have been about 16 years old and I imagine it was a Saturday job for her. As I stood and waited for my prescription, I becaame aware that the 60+ man next to me kept asking her when she was going out for lunch with him and what about if he came back later. The girl clearly didn’t know him and was obviously struggling with how to handle the situation in her place of work. She looked incredibly uncomfortable with his attention and questions and with becoming the focus of the whole shop as a result. The old man just carried on regardless. I felt so angry for her and have kicked myself ever since that I didn’t say something to this man.
It took me right back to an incident I experienced when I worked in a greengrocers at about 15 years of age. I looked up to serve the next customer – a man who was probaably in his 40’s. His response to me was to ask “What’s the other one called?”. I didn’t twig. I was aware that boys of around my own age could be crude and even cruel, but my experience of grown men was limited to a few decent and repectful men in my family and our local community. I’d just assumed all grown men were like this. I must have looked quizzical or said I didn’t understand because the man then indicated to one of my breasts, at the top of which the logo on my crew neck t-shirt said ‘Fruit of the Loom’. then he said it again, “So, what the other one called?”.
I was a shy teenager. I was one of those girls who found puberty and the changes of my body uncomfortable. I could have died of embarrassment when that man said that to me in that shop. I blushed horribly and felt tongue tied and stupid. I felt really angry that I couldn’t get the upper hand and come out with a smart put-down to throw back at the guy. I probably would have lost my job if I’d said anything back anyway. The man laughed his head off even more seeing the effect he’d had on me. To this day I feel a rush of anger if I ever think about the advantage this stupid man took, just to feel funny and powerful at my expense.
I’ve had plenty of experiences of the type of issue you’re researching, throughout my life. (From the “Cheer up Love” on the street, to being followed around the University library, to a man staring directly at me whilst masturbating himself on a train). Whilst some incidents were just annoying, others have been really scary. Yet, I don’t think I’ve ever again experienced the same level of utter humilation I felt as a 15 yr old girl, standing in that greengrocers.
I’m 44 now. No one tells you that one of the nice things about getting older is that the harrassment generally stops. It’s bliss when it does. This is how men get to live their whole lives!
Good luck with your research. I can’t believe a single woman hasn’t experinced some level of unwanted interest or harraassment from men. We all just accept it’s part of the deal of being a woman, don’t we.
Hi Janine,
Thanks so much for getting in touch and adding your voice. Your experiences here really show the connections and the regularity of the issues I am researching. If you’d like to participate more please email me at fie0029@my.londonmet.ac.uk for details.
I’m based in Leicester but I’ve had some of the less harrowing experiences that you list. I get told to cheer up by strange men all the time. One in particular I remember was drunk at 10 o’clock in the morning. I’ve also had remarks about appearance that I did nothing to solicit. I don’t like this kind of attention when I’m just out minding my own business but I attract it anyway. I think this is a great idea for a research project and would like to participate if it would help.
Thanks for your support Michelle! Email me at fie0029@my.londonmet.ac.uk if you want more info on how to participate. Fiona
Hi There,
I co-run Hollaback London – our site may have some useful resources for you, let me know if we can help at all – http://ldn.ihollaback.org
Thanks!
Bryony
Hi Bryony,
I’ve been in touch with both you and Julia and you’ve been a big help! I’ve been doing this for almost 2 years now and we met up ages ago to discuss it. You’ve also given me access to some of your blogs for data – I’m a big Hollaback fan! Fiona
Hi!
This is actually something that needs to looked into! I’d definitely like to be a part of this.
Great Cristina – have sent you an email with details of how to get involved.
I’ve had a few experiences like this. Happy to participate. Please send me details.
Thanks for getting in touch Katherine. Have emailed you more details!
Yes I have several experiences I would be happy to share 🙂
Hi Angela – thanks for getting in touch and offering to add your voice. I’ve emailed you with more info. F
Unfortunately i have few examples, so feel free to contact me if you need anything…can i ask you if you send like a questionnaire through mail??
Hi Claudia,
I’m actually conducting in depth conversations with women as questionnaire/survey research doesn’t seem to capture what I’m interested in. If you’d still be interested please let me know and I’ll send you through more information.
I am more than interested, please feel free to contact me. I was just wondering, I am a student too about to write a dissertation for my MA.
I wait for a mail then.
Claudia
Hey, feel free to get in touch with me about this. I’d love to participate as it’s something i tend to discuss with people a lot and have had lots of experiences myself.
Ruth
I’m much too far from London to participate (down in the good old USA), but just wanted to say this is a great idea!
I would happily participate – and feel very passionately about the topic. Live in Finsbury Park.
Hey Rachel – have emailed you with info! Thanks for your interest.
If you can do a phone interview I am happy to participate! I have a few examples (I’m sure most women do…) but one in particular. I am in the UK – contact me if you want to chat.
Hi Cathy,
I’ve emailed you with details of how to participate if you are interested. Thanks for getting in touch, F
All these ludicrous comments will work into your thesis well – such vitriolic panic. I have never understand why some men have to control women so much – what do they get out of it?? And why the abject fear of feminists?! So strange…
You are totally right – everything posted on here is data.I wouldn’t bother engaging, it’s the weekend!
Hi, I would love to participate in your study, but I’m based in Scotland. Could you please email me some info on the study?
I’m South African, but I am very much interested in ur study. My best friend nd i have had a lot to say about this, nd how it is related to the overall expectation (implicit or otherwise) dat a woman is something a man is inherently entitled to.
Hi Lerato,
If you send me an email at fie0029@my.londonmet.ac.uk I can forward you more details of the research and how you could get involved. Thanks.
Do you hate men or something? Men are no longer willing to be insulted by such misandry, feminism is now being pushed back, this is not the 70s you know
You don’t understand misandry, and you’re ridiculously defensive – nobody hates you, don’t panic. You should empathise with the struggle since you’re ‘no longer willing to be insulted’. Nor are the groped! Or is it acceptable for women to get grief?
Is this for real?!
The vast majority of the unemployed are male.
The vast majority of those who commit suicide are male.
The vast majority of the victims of violence are male.
The vast majority of workplace deaths are male.
The vast majority of the homeless are male.
The vast majority of those killed during wartime are male.
Yet being told to ‘cheer up’ and being looked at is somehow a grievance? I’m sorry, but being groped in public is such a rarity for women, no matter how much you claim otherwise. In my life, I see more homeless men than I see women being groped or harrassed in public, a ratio of 100:-100, and I attend nightclubs. All of your bullet points (except the first one) all sound like the symptoms of chronic narcissism to me.
The same gender that you tirelessly attempt to paint as being somehow sexually deviant and innately disrespect to females by default are the same gender that sunk with the Titanic so that females could put their feet up on the lifeboats. Upper class men giving their lives to save lower-class women. Men are good people, no better or worse than women. Male sexuality is not something to be sneered at. Hearing a compliment and being admired for your beauty is not a disgusting act but rather something you should cherish.
The phrase ‘Moddy Coddled middle-class over-privileged detached-from-reality imbecile’ comes to mind.
Wow, a snipey, dismissive comment, I have certaintly been put in my place. You are so intelligent that you don’t even need to address me appropriately.
My points are completely invalidated by your blind dismissal of them, and you don’t seem conceited at all as a result. Well done you!
I do feel for women who do get groped (which is pretty rare, as much as you’d love to claim otherwise), I just can’t see how being looked at, complimented or being told to ‘cheer up’ is oppressive. Annoying maybe. And while you may not have used the term ‘oppressive’ yourself, it is clear this is what you’re trying to imply. If life is so awful for women compared to men’s as a result of this pandemic, why is it that the vast majority of suicides are still men (and rising)? If you want to work on a PHD project about something that matters and that will challenge you intellectually, why don’t you study the social causes of male suicide or homelessness and why it is so massively disproportionate to that of females? We all know the conclusion to your current project – “When I was in school boys were nasty to me, and my father was a pretty weak role model, so therefore all men are jerks and that is why… erm… what was the project again? …hh, yeah, that is why women are looked at and complimented from time to time”
I second the sentiment, i no longer engage women i don’t know in any kind of conversation because of the willingness of women to find any kind of approach, no matter what the circumstance as an invasion of their space or an attack on their gender. It’s a sad inditement on modern society that half of the population is routinely demonised by the other half and studies like this one, as is demonstrated by the nature of the questions, have a preconceived agenda and that is to trash men.
I completely understand why you would feel that way, male morale is pretty much gone in todays society. But please, don’t completely stop engaging women in conversation, by doing so you’re letting feminists like this woman win. The ‘MTGOW’ are just making the problem of societal misandry worse.
Feminism is quite clearly the ideological expression of penis envy (Freud) to anyone with a rational mind, but this trait isn’t inherent in all women by a long shot, only those with issues in their childhood development. Women have been inundated since birth with feminist propaganda about competing with men and therefore rarely manage to accept themselves for who they are and what society expects of them as a result. They grow up with a feeling of resentment towards their circumstances regardless of what they are. This is why they are constantly chasing the equality apple which the radical feminists dangle over their heads. The only way to reverse this is for men to prove themselves to the rational women out there (which make up the majority). A huge proportion of women are misled by feminism, but they are not pathologically attached to it like the radicals who do the actual misleading are. The average woman cannot be blamed for this, if your average man could find an excuse for why his life isn’t exactly what he’d like it to be, he would also subscribe to it. People like to play the blame game. Look at 1930s Germany!
You know, as bad as it sounds, I would really like to see feminists put into the following male-centric (with exception to no.3) situations for just a day and see if they still complain about their ‘shackles’.
1. Down the coal mines.
2. On a battlefield.
3. On a slave ship heading to the Americas.
4. On the titanic as it sinks whilst having a penis.
“Oooh goodie! Having to do housework and earning 10p less an hour is hard work compared to having your best friends guts blown into your face, breathing in toxic chemcials, preparing for a life of absolute servitude or drowning in ice cold water!”
If these feminists were alive during the first world war, they would be alongside the Suffragettes handing out white feathers to men as a mark of cowardice, because it isn’t about male and female equality, it is about hatred for men and general supremacy. That isn’t at all conspiratorial to suggest. Nazis get together based on their hatred and attempt to justify it on an intellectual level (while failing). Feminism is no different in that respect. The Hierarchy of feminism is Pathological radical misandrists at the top and women who want to blame somebody else for their shortcomings shortly below.
Being groped is really rare – how have you come to that? Maybe do a bit of research beforehand – avoid looking silly. Loved the penis envy quip below – dream on!
I’m a man, and this happens to me all the time. Women stare at me, they hover around me…
When I was in the club yesterday, a whole bunch of women I don’t know “accidentally” stepped on my toes. Two women asked me for a lighter.
Sometimes when I’m in the grocery or a boutique, a woman will comment on the product I’m purchasing.
Today some women asked me for direction, and when I told them the answer, they still stayed around staring at me. Despite the fact that I was walking home and I had already provided them the answer.
When I tell this to female friends, they tell me these women find me attractive and are trying to let me know, so I can engage them in conversation.
But I say “wait, but isn’t a man a creep when he does the same things”? So when a woman does it she’s courageous and brave and “making a move on an attractive man”… But if men do those same actions they are creepy (unless they happen to be the woman’s type of course).
I don’t know, this is all confusing.
Oh, I’ve been approached by women asking me to smile or cheer at least a dozen times in my life. I’ve been told I should see it as a compliment. It seems to be the most common icebreaker women use in clubs.
Why am I disqualified from this study? And what is your protection from me suing you for sex discrimination? I meet all of the bullet points in your requirements except my genitalia is wrong. How do I go about suing you?
I am a victim as well. I am a construction worker and I have been gazed upon numerous times by women without my permission. This has also happened several times to a friend of mine who is a policeman. One time a woman was so brazen as to smile at me and tell me she liked my shirt. I’ve been going to counselling but it takes time.
The only bullet point that should be considered a problem is the third. The others… if you can’t deal with these things yourself- you are a special precious snowflake so don’t go outside.
While I do sincerely feel for you following your highly traumatic episode, I do request that in the future you place a trigger warning above your post. I actually suffered flashbacks after reading what you wrote and had to breathe in and out of a paper bag just to get my breath back. When I was 15, an older woman who was serving me in the shop commented on what a handsome man I was becoming. Traumatized, I left the shop with quite a distraught look on my face which prompted another woman walking by to tell me to cheer up. I said to her “So just because I have a distraught look on my face does that give you the right to tell me to cheer up?” Little did that matriarchal witch know that she would spark the now infamous ‘Distraught-Walk’ protests, where men voice their dismay at being told to ‘cheer up’ just because they happen to look sad at the time.
The third bullet point is a serious problem. In fact, the disgusting part here is how that third bullet point (actual crimes) were put on the same bullet list as potential annoyances.
In fact, how did that bullet point end up on the same list as the other 4 bullet points? It’s like putting…
Parallel study with equivalent bullet points
-1> Have you ever heard a joke you didn’t find funny, and the person kept repeating it despite the fact it wasn’t funny?
-2> Have you ever had anyone change the radio channel without asking you?
-3> Has anyone ever ripped your skull open, murdered your dog or tortured your children?
-4> Have you ever had someone try to befriend you, even though you didn’t think you were a good match for a friendship, yet this person still tried to be friends with you??
-5-> Or any other experiences you want to talk about?
And if you want to see the sexism of the study, just replace male/female with black/white
I am a white PhD student at London Metropolitan University researching whites’ experiences of the way blacks respond to them, and particularly how they feel about this.
I am looking for whites who have anything to say about this, no matter how big or small, to have a short 1/.2 hr – 1 hour chat with me. If you want to, you’ll also be given a research notebook to record your experiences over the next few weeks. If you agree we will then meet up again to discuss what you found and anything else you want to add about your encounters with blacks in public.
This study is for whites only.
Thank you.
Absolutely brilliant points! It reminds me of that article “A Man Is a Rape Supporter If…”
http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/
It is a very sneaky tactic of defamation. They call it the ‘Assocation Fallacy’, quite a well known logical fallacy. If you wish to learn more about logical fallacies, read any feminist textbook, you’re sure to find many.
It can be intimidating to be stared at by groups men leering and being generally pathetic. Not just annoying – intimidating – you condone this?
Oh I see, “being pathetic” is now on the same scale as groping (AN ACTUAL crime)? How dare you minimize the evil that is groping.
You do realize YOU ARE TRIVIALIZING GROPING there Kate?
This is why my analogy was so brilliant. It had the following pathetic behaviour listed:
“-1> Have you ever heard a joke you didn’t find funny, and the person kept repeating it despite the fact it wasn’t funny?”
How would you feel if someone put this on the same list as “Somebody tortured my dog and children”. It would be trivializing something horrible, would it not.
BEING PATHETIC is NOT on the same scale as freaking groping. For you to even IMPLY such a silly notion is for you to trivialize groping. Shame on you!
Or look at number 4, it matches your “pathetic behaviour that certain people can get intimidated by”
-4> Have you ever had someone try to befriend you, even though you didn’t think you were a good match for a friendship, yet this person still tried to be friends with you?? And they even persisted?
If a popular kid in high school is having a shy/geeky kid trying to befriend him/her persistently, he might feel annoyed to the point of intimidation even…
But no one reasonable would put that behaviour on the same list as for example “physical bullying based on homophobia, including anti-gay slurs”.
To do so would be to minimize the horror that is homophobic bullying.
Awwwww….you poor widdle man. Life must be really hard for you : (
Gazed upon? Not sure that’s the topic.
The difference between “gazing” and “staring” and “flirting” is subjective, individual and different between different cultures or even sub-cultures and niches.
Let me throw out a challenge for y’all
I’d invest a ton of money and convince all MRAs in the world to push for a legislation that YOU come up with – a specific legislation on what men can and can’t do
Men would actually have NO PROBLEM with a law that says “you can do x, but not y”, “you can look for this many seconds, but must stop after this many seconds”.
The trouble men have is that a) Different women define what’s appropriate differently b) their requirements clash.
-> If I want to let Jane know I’m interested, she’d expect me to look at her for more than 10 seconds, otherwise she thinks I’m not interested in her and she insists that a man MUST look at her for 10 seconds to give her a signal and prepare her
-> If I want to let JOANNE know I’m interested, she’d expect me to look at her for 3 seconds, but not more, as more than 5 seconds intimidates her
Here’s the trick. TELEPATHY DOESNT EXIST. THE EXACT SAME BEHAVIOUR that is required by one woman, is annoying to another, and as a man you can’t know which woman prefers what.
Again, we men don’t mind rules… We just want to know what rules are. In… advance.
Gaia forbid someone looks at you in public! What a crime! Thank the Goddess that we have people like you willing to research this appalling injustice. With your aid the evil of the Y-Chromosome will finally be exposed and the sisterhood will no longer be forced to endure the horror of being told to cheer up. How dare any man suggest that I set aside my anger! I have every reason to be a bitch because of the inherently oppressive nature of the patriarchy.
It is very possible that your professors might suggest that your topic is worthless and without merit (unless, of course, you are a Womyn’s Studies Major in which case your professors are on a much higher plane of enlightenment than the plebs and peasants around you). They might recommend that you choose a topic that doesn’t make you look like an ice princess with entitlement issues. These lowlifes are exactly who we need to enlighten. The womyn doubters must be brought forth to the light so that they can take their rightful places as overlords over the males. Enlightenment of the males is impossible since they are much less evolved than us, but once the truth is exposed it will not matter that they can’t recognize the truth for we will be powerful enough to completely crush them under our high heels and condemn them to the breeding pits where they belong.
Once again, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for working to scholastically expose the brutal living conditions of the average womyn in the U.K. If you would like to hear some of my experiences, you can contact me at TheIronVajayjay@gmail.com.
May the Goddess bless you.
You’ve never been raped, I take it? Beaten up? Kicked down the stairs? Controlled? Bullied? Burned? Overlords over males – that’s the crux – you’re terrified. But don’t worry – men won’t relinquish any power any time soon – fragile egos won’t accept that.
Woah! Hold on a second! I am on your side here, or didn’t you realize that from my wholehearted endorsement of this study in my first post? This is vitally important stuff. Goddess knows that we shouldn’t stand idly by and just accept these barbaric men looking at us and saying hello to us or asking us on dates (as if I would ever use a man for anything other than disposable breeding stock anyway!). Well, I guess I’ve technically never been asked out by a man, but I would absolutely turn him down if one did! Pigs!
We need to continue this crusade to vilify and emasculate men, and publishing propaga…err, I mean scholarly studies like this one is a perfect way to maintain progress and forward momentum.
‘looking at us’ or ‘saying hello’ – isn’t rape, abuse or barbaric. Being asked out isn’t being beaten. What are you talking about…
Well, the title of this page is “Have you ever experienced attention from a man you didn’t know in public?” That’s a pretty broad, as it should be since any kind of attention a man gives you is oppressive at best and rape (or at least displaying a support of rape) at worst. This sister explains it VERY well, although I would have included such atrocities as staring, suggesting cheer, and commenting on the appearance of womyn, since all of these actions are endorsements of the rape culture.
http://evebitfirst.wordpress.com/2011/05/18/a-man-is-a-rape-supporter-if/
And it’s a good thing that rape culture is so all-inclusive of many things that Y-Chromosomers will attempt to blow off as innocuous, benign, or at least mutual, since the word rape is never explicitly stated in this article; the closest being assault. I guess it’s not really important, though, since everything a man ever does to a woman is a form of rape. That’s why we need to put the scum in their place! And it’s forward thinking feminists like us that are going to accomplish that goal!
Everything a man ever does to a woman is a form of rape? You seem hysterical!
ive had women i didnt know talk to me, ive been groped by women i dont know …. sometimes when i am out in public women looked at me, with their eyes. it makes me feel sick.
i think we all need to concentrate more on this problem in society
Being groped makes me feel sick. What’s wrong with people who do that?
This doesn’t seem like a real problem in society. I mean, were all atomized and alienated from each other enough. With the exception of being flashed, groped and stuff, I mean seriously? A look, or casual talking is not something to get worked up about. Ideally we want to be a people who can be friendly towards one another.
American society is isolating and frigid enough.
I don’t think she’s referring to ‘a look, or casual talking’…
Source: Jeremy Nicholson
There is also a psychological tendency to bias the attributions about the requester. The Fundamental Attribution Error illustrates that individuals are likely to attribute the behavior of others to disposition or personality, as opposed to situational factors (Ross, 1977). In other words, when an individual is disinterested in the offer of another person (a behavior), he/she is more likely to attribute that disinterest to a characteristic of the requester (e.g. they seem unattractive, boring, or uncomfortable), rather than to factors within themselves or the situation (e.g. they are in a bad mood, disinterested, or distracted). So, there is a bias to blame the requester for not liking the request – even though many other factors often actually cause the disinterest.
Finally, there are also Downward Social Comparison processes that can even make some people feel good when they view others badly. This has been studied particularly in instances of racism, but it certainly applies to other forms of prejudice (Fein & Spencer, 1997). Essentially, people can get a self-esteem ”boost” from putting others down (like when they “reject” others harshly). This is especially likely to occur when they are feeling badly about themselves, or are not thinking about the situation fully (e.g. distracted, drunk, etc.).
Put it all together…and that is a recipe for a very difficult interpersonal situation. If someone is not interested in a date request, it can feel bad or difficult to say no while empathizing with the person asking. There is an automatic psychological bias to incorrectly blame the requester’s personal characteristics for being disinterested in the request. Also, there can even be a temptation for a self-esteem boost by devaluing the other person, while exercising the “power” to say no. No wonder, even with the best of intentions, it often goes so badly…
The above explains the link between low self-esteem in women, and a tendency to exaggerate the negativity of offers that were made.
In other words, the lower a woman’s self-esteem, the more likely she is to invent all sorts of bad motives and prescribe bad intentions upon a man’s failed romantic offering.
Sometimes this gets so incredibly bad, that such a woman can equate mere annoyances to actual crime. Re: Someone putting groping on the same spectrum as a compliment.
I am a huge black man. White women stare at me in public and ask me if all the rumors about size are true. Huge groups of grils (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMmHbHxBY0) often harass me. Many times they do this when I am out with my wife and children. I have called the police, but they do nothing. If the genders were reversed, I think the police would do something.
You experience harassment – you’d think you’d empathise with women?! The police classically don’t do very well with abuse against women – do you not read the papers?
What a cunt.
Look, bitch, you can hate men all you want. I don’t care, because you’re obviously a sick cunt I wouldn’t want anything to do with.
But, PLEASE, stop trying to spread your hatred and bigotry. There are enough stupid like-minded cunts in the making out there who could catch your disease. I don’t want our future generation of boys to have to endure the misandry we have been subjected to.
Bitch, please find the tallest skyscraper near you, and jump off of it. You would be doing a great service to society.
No one hates men. Don’t you understand anything? Your statement proves your misogyny though, well done – you’re an idiot!
You may not agree with the study but is responding with such hatred and anger necessary? If you don’t wish to have anything to do with her then just ignore. You have seemed to completely missed the point that the majority of feminists out there do not hate men we just want a more equal society where everyone is treated with a little respect. It’s not such a terrible thing to think of.
Ah yes, equality. I would like the same thing. So we should start out by overturning VAWA and Title IX, overhauling the family courts so that they aren’t so overwhelmingly in favor of women, instituting equal physical requirements for military, police, and firefighters instead of letting the grrrlls do pushups on their knees, allowing men diagnosed with breast cancer to receive Medicaid, putting forth a more equal allotment of funds towards male-centric cancers, getting rid of Selective Service or make women also sign up for it so they can enjoy the perks of the draft, etc. etc. etc.
You ladies don’t know how ridiculously good you got it, and yet you still push for MORE MORE MORE. Is it any wonder that people are starting to wake up and call you on your bullcrap?
Mr Flibble, you seem to be from the states, which I am not so I am not familiar with some of those things although the title ix and vawa (from a quick glance at wiki) don’t seem that they can affect men negatively so no, I don’t agree with you there. The physical requirement thing is splitting hairs slightly, men and women as individuals all have things they can offer to those services regardless of whether they do pressups on their knees. Men should have the same option as women in that respect as all bodies are built differently.
The medicaid thing is not an argument as far as I’m concerned as I am massively pro the NHS and advocate free health care for all at point of access so the system in the states goes completely against the grain for me; of course men should receive free care for cancer, regardless of where it is, as should women.
And the selective service thing (again something I am not familiar with) appears to be something to do with conscription which I am morally opposed to for men and women. If any individual wishes to join up they should be allowed to do so but no one should be forced.
So, as you see, equality. It works out best for everyone!
What I would like you to see is that your original post is very aggressive, personally abusive to the person running this research and completely out of order. Put your point accross for debate if you wish but why be so unpleasant?
LOL if you really think that Title IX and VAWA aren’t anti-male then you have no clue what you are talking about. VAWA is a law that basically assumes male guilt. It causes a system where men are arrested in domestic violence situations even where they were the victims. It causes a presumption of guilt where a man can be arrested for anything.
Since you are apparently from the U.K. I would recommend that you read or watch on YouTube some of the material from Erin Pizzey. Erin was a feminist in the 70’s and started up the first domestic violence shelters in the world. Her outlook on domestic violence laws has changed drastically since then. You should hear what she has to say. Here’, I’ll help you out.
Erin Pizzey on Feminism:
Part of a large documentary on feminism in the UK, much of which involves Erin Pizzey’s, and a number of other people’s, perspective (4 parts):
Title IX sounds great when you just give it a cursory glance on a wiki page, but it has severely negative affects on men. Any place that receives federal funding, which for the purposes of Title IX is going to be universities, is forced into making a quota and forcing equality of outcome as opposed to equality of opportunity. For example, many men’s sports teams are outright eliminated to make way for women’s sports teams, even in situations where there was no demand for women’s teams.
For example, imagine a school that has 100 men and 100 women. Of the men, 50 are interested in and involved in sport. Of the women, 40 are interested in and involved in sport. According to the law this is discriminatory and as such the men’s sport program will be cut by 20% in order to force an equal proportion of men and women in sport.
Title IX also results in extremely sexist policies like women’s only scholarships and federal grants. How many of those are out there for men? Oh yeah, zero. Still think that Title IX isn’t discriminator against men?
Affirmative Action is another law that goes hand in hand with Title IX. This law also forces equality of outcome as opposed to equality of opportunity. It screws qualified men by forcing employers to hire women who might not be as qualified just to meet a federally mandated quota. You scoff at the inequality between physical requirements but it places strain on the system and actually endangers people as well. In police and fire departments women are given the same pay and benefits as men while they are unable to perform the work necessary to do the job. This both puts the public in danger and necessitates hiring more people to take up the slack.
Here is another video showcasing exactly what I mean. This is a short one.
I’m glad that you’re against conscription. That’s fantastic. But I have never seen a feminist organization or politician fight to end the gender discrimination. Why don’t they? Well, it’s obvious that they only care about equality when it benefits women, NOT when it benefits men, even in a non-zero sum situation like abolishing selective service. Pathetic.
Come on guys. Don’t be so nasty. She’s only trying to have some fun and feel feminine and vulnerable. it’s exciting for her and her participants to feel wanted and victimized. Initiatives like this are nothing other than a public expression of rape fantasy and the unspoken desire to be ravaged.
Don’t believe me? Then ask them if they had a choice between having random strangers hit on them or never be hit on again, which they’d prefer. They’d deny it of course but the truth is that nobody wants to be unwanted – even if the desire comes from “lowlifes”. When they say they just don’t like to be hit on by certain kinds of men or in certain ways, that is just exercising privilege.
Rape fantasy – ha! I can honestly say I do not want to be wanted by idiots. Nope – I don’t believe you. People who grope are sad bastards – no one like that attention. You sound like you do though – fair play to you.
Interesting that you phrase it that way: “do not want to be wanted by idiots” and “no one like[s] that attention”.
How about any attention or being wanted by anyone? Would you, given the choice, rather not get any attention at all? You avoided that entirely.
I have in fact been groped and worse. Yes it does suck but I can also say in all honesty that being ignored completely sucks even more. At least I have the honesty to say so which is all I’m asking for in others.
I don’t hold those fantasies against you or even the desire to control who hits on you. The latter is a logical consequence of being in a position of privilege as a someone who is sought after. But what I do mind is people politicizing their sexuality and leveraging their privilege against unprivileged groups as many of the women here like you are doing. Have a little more empathy for others.
You are not empowering women at all. You’re perpetuating and not fighting the eternal myth of female inferiority. Treat women as equals and they will become equal quickly – but women themselves have to do that first.
Empathy for women who are intimidated is exactly what I do have. Nobody should have to put up with harassment. Getting attention is not necessarily harassment – I’m not stupid. But I have been groped before – it’s absolutely awful for anyone, but since this happens to women far more frequently by idiot perverts – I tend to fall on the side of those women and reassure them that it is not their fault. I’m not inferior to any man or woman – and I would love everyone to feel the same as me – but they don’t because behaviour like groping gets written off as hysterical misandy which of course perpetuates this ludicrous power dynamic between genders. Can’t people in general just be against groping?!
Talk about avoiding questions and sidestepping issues. It’s like talking to a computer program that posts predesigned generic phrases that would have been said anyway no matter what I write.
“Empathy for women who are intimidated is exactly what I do have.”
Does your empathy necessitate one having a vagina? Are you even remotely aware of what a sorry existence it must be for a man whose best is to whistle at strange women walking past? You think you have empathy? Then ask yourself what could possibly make you behave the way these people do and if you get an answer other than “nothing” then you do have empathy.
“Can’t people in general just be against groping?!”
Some people like being groped – especially if it’s by someone they’re attracted to. Besides, this is shifting the goalposts. The article is not just talking about being groped but also just receiving comments from strangers.
“..groping gets written off as hysterical misandy which of course perpetuates this ludicrous power dynamic between genders.”
I know when you get hit on unpleasantly it makes you feel powerless in that moment but the miserable people who do it are the ones without power. It’s no coincidence that such behavior is more likely to come from people at the bottom end of the social pecking order. Because they have no other means to even get a chance to talk to such women in any setting they’d consider appropriate. This is their best chance. That is how pathetic their lives are. Hence my call for empathy.
While complaining about groping is usually not about misandry it is however driven by ignorance, lack of empathy and the absurd privilege to think you should get to decide who talks to you in what way.
Many have theorized that a lot of feminist theories are a way of giving some women an excuse to be racist and classist.
It’s no wonder that feminist theory and law impacts lower-class men and ethnicities the worst.
It’s blacks and other minorities who suffer the most from false rape accusations. It is mostly minority men and poor men who are commiting suicide or rotting in prison due to family court decisions… not rich white men.
It’s powerless poor men and men in underprivileged groups who are most likely to engage in sexual harassment, catcalls etc. It’s an act of desperation by the underprivileged desperately trying to gain a little sense of power.
Yes. I often remind people when they say most violence is committed by men, that violence is the language of the helpless. There is an inverse relationship between how much power and status a man has and how violent he is likely to be.
So it’s time to approach even male perpetrated violence from a perspective of empathy too rather than the usual reactionary perspective. If the latter was worth anything it would have worked 5000 years ago.
If men were to ‘suffer’ with these ‘issues’ every single day at twenty times the rate of your average woman, there would literally be little to no complaint from them because it would still be infinitesimal when compared to the hardships they face throughout life. The problem is that life is now so easy for women in the western world, coupled with the fact they are simultaneously told that they are so terribly oppressed all the time, they have lost all sense of perspective. Not really related, but what I find utterly hilarious is that these same feminists who bemoan western men for having any form of sexuality or urge to feel valuable in society are usually in support of mass immigration from Muslim nations, even though Islamic culture is the most barbaric imaginable in terms of its treatment of women – evidenced by the pandemic of rape gangs we are seeing across Europe. This is because feminism is not about protecting women, it is a money making racket that exploits penis envy and misnadry. This is why MRAs are chasing shadows when debating feminists with facts and logic in the hope of converting them. Feminism should be observed pathologically. Just like there are misogynists, there are also misandrists. These people cannot be convinced with rationality because they are not interested in finding the truth. Feminism is useful for many special interests. 1st the law industry. Without feminist dogma pervading the collective consciousness of women they would stand to lose billions. Divorces, false rape allegations, sexual harrassment lawsuits etc. thrive as a direct result of feminism. 2nd the Government, as feminism requires the expansion of government. This is evident by the fact that the majority of welfare and healthcare expenditure is actually geared towards women. The state is the new husband. 3rd private enterprise, as the constant desperation of many women to be ‘independent’ (while collecting a multitude of state handouts) has advanced consumerism. The vast majority of the spending power is in the hands of women, and by having the “Be independent!” trigger, they can quite literally peddle anything to them.
You are utterly paranoid! First – clearly I am not concerned with people who enjoy being groped- obviously, never met one of course. I’m concerned about the ones who prefer not to be – because they feel intimidated and ashamed (is there something wrong with this opinion). I can’t understand why you would effectively support people like that. Yes – I am supportive of migration to this country partly because of the anti-women culture in some parts of the world. Otherwise I see it as none of my business – people migrate for all sorts of reasons. Penis envy is ludicrous – women don’t want to be men, on the whole, and when they do it’s not for power purposes. I think divorce is a positive product of feminism, of course I do – unhappy marriages must be awful – at least now the law helps people get outs of these contracts and the decision isn’t all based on the man’s perspective – how is this a bad thing?! Being independent is what men have always had – and that’s a good thing – I just hope for a fairer distribution. Men aren’t hated – this paranoia is so unfounded. The only situation where women have more power (that I can think of) is parenting in divorce – the assumption being that the children should stay with their mother where possible. I don’t freak out and start hammering men for having a problem with this – there are clear policy entanglements that are too complex to reconcile – but I don’t get mad about it. You say ‘be independent’ like it’s a mad concept – it’s not, it’s a human right. This isn’t a war against men, it’s more a war for women.
Yes, Adi – the miserable people who do whistle are the sad ones without power – I of course know that, but many people aren’t as confident as me. It’s just a strange anti-social thing to do. And from rare accounts – people like that enjoy it when women are upset/angry and continue with ‘lesbian’, ‘frigid bitch’ etc! Dickheads! I don’t personally care about people staring – I really have no care about that at all – but again, it’s not people like ME that I am worried for – it’s those who are. That’s empathy!!
Forgot to add – no, I know of many men who have empathy too – and they have penises – result! Although I was talking to my husband last night about women in the Middle East who have been put in jail for refusing to marry their rapist and he said he can’t even imagine getting violent with a woman in any way whatsoever – so he found it really difficult to have empathy for something so far removed from this own psyche. I don’t ‘get’ why anyone would whistle at a woman (what’s the point – except to wind them up!? It’s not an uncommon reaction), groped, abused in any sense – to it’s really hard for me to empathise with the men who do this. I don’t think it requires much empathy when they’re not the ones at the receiving end. It seems every time there’s a ‘radical feminist’ message posted (as if this is radical) everyone wants to talk about men. It’s not a competition – just an acknowledgement that things happen and an analysis of why.
Oh B.S. This page was asking women to talk about their stories of having attention, ANY attention, directed at them from people they didn’t know, and then associating said attention, which could be anything, with assault and harassment, thereby demonizing any man who would dare attempt to interact with a strange woman.
I do have empathy, quite a bit of it as a matter of fact. But it was blatantly obvious what the true intent of this “research paper” was.
Also, I don’t think this website was radically feminist. It was typically feminist; but typical feminism is still a blight on humanity, having long sense departed from its egalitarian goals. It is now a female supremacy movement, and all of our laws and policies instigated by feminist lobbies (in the U.S.) that are blatantly misandric are proof positive that it is so.
“Being independent is what men have always had”
Oh the blistering ignorance. You think that being responsible for the family income is being independent? This broadly accepted assumption that male gender roles are any less oppressive than female gender roles is one of the big failures of feminism. You try being the sole provider for a family.
And that isn’t even going into the really oppressive gender roles enforcements like conscription. And those are even still going on today to some extent.
You should watch girlwriteswhat’s youtube channel. She will give you some insight that is hard to find anywhere else. Her unique perspective combined with some very solid reasoning makes her one of the most promising voices on gender equality.
“”First – clearly I am not concerned with people who enjoy being groped- obviously, never met one of course… I can’t understand why you would effectively support people like that.””
What? Who said anything about women ‘enjoying’ being groped. I am merely saying that women being groped is a relatively rare crime and absolutely not comparable to being told to “cheer up” or being complimented on your appearance. Groping isn’t nice, but it also isn’t comparable to being assaulted – something men experience FAR more than women do. I am certainly not supporting ‘gropers’. That is a very sneaky tactic you are employing called the ‘association fallacy’.
“I am supportive of migration to this country partly because of the anti-women culture in some parts of the world.”
And this is what I find hilarious. In Western society rape is an extremely rare crime and only committed by men who are sexual deviants. 99.999% of men would never consider rape and absolutely despise any man who would even consider rape and would have them hanging from the gallows given the opportunity. However, you are actively importing cultures that rape due to there belief system. This is evidenced by the child rape gangs that are a pandemic throughout the UK and the rest of Europe. In Norway EVERY SINGLE RAPE that was committed in the past three years was committed by a Muslim immigrant. I personally believe feminists do this so they can point out the higher rape statistics without isoloating the true cause and scream “See! Rape is getting worse in the Western world! Western men support rape!”.
“Penis envy is ludicrous – women don’t want to be men, on the whole, and when they do it’s not for power purposes.”
When I use penis envy, I believe it to be a metaphor of the envy of some women to the perceived (yet totally imaginary) power that men have. They want all the ‘power’ (which plain and simply doesn’t exist – men don’t have power by default) but none of the responsibility that comes with that ‘power’. Feminists claim men have power because those who have the most power are men. This is a childish way to look at things. The fact that most homeless people are male is demonstrative of the flawed logic here. The amount of homeless males far surpasses the amount of ‘elite’ males. If the ‘patriarchy’ was working on behalf of men, then homelessness amongst men would be practically non-existent.
“I think divorce is a positive product of feminism, of course I do – unhappy marriages must be awful – at least now the law helps people get outs of these contracts and the decision isn’t all based on the man’s perspective – how is this a bad thing?!”
Marriage is about compromise and sacrifice. Feminism has created a culture where divorce is somehow desirable when the going gets tough. It just enforces the idea that men are disposable. “To the left to the left! Everything you own in a box to the left! I can have another you in a minute! Matter fact he’ll be here in a minute!”. Maybe Beyonce could have evaluated her own actions to determine why her man may have been unfaithful? No? Just divorce him? Okay, that’s reasonable. Are your grandparents unhappy together? No, because the culture in the past ensured that couples work together. Now you have created ‘fast food marriage’. It is also incentivized by the fact that women can take 50% of a mans wealth through the law system. I have the transcript of a conversation amongst women online on my computer where they openly plot with one woman to divorce her husband after the 5 year mark so they can take his money without arousing suspicion. I am not against divorce in situations where the marriage is truly unhappy or one of the partners is abusive (it just so happens that women commit domestic abuse more than men, but just happen to cause less damage ue to less strength), what I am saying is that this is a rarity and the fact that divorce is so easy and not frowned upon makes this preferable to actually working in tandem with another human being to work things out.
“Being independent is what men have always had…”
WOAH!!!!! I have been pretty calm throughout this but have to be honest, the ignorance here actually makes me a little bit angry. Will have to roll a cigarette. Make that a joint!
What you are saying, is that when men were forced out of their homes, had their heads shaved off to destroy there individuality, told they are worthless maggots, sent into a battlefield, had there friends guts blown into there faces and either died or were dismembered just to make rich fuckers richer, they were independent?!?!
What you are saying, is that men who were forced to work in the factories where they risked death every single day, breathed in highly toxic chemicals lowering there life expectancy (which is still much lower than womens in contemporary society, for the record), lost limbs in the cogs of the machines during there 15 hour shifts so they could support a whole family were independent?!?!
As for today, men DO have independence, but not as much as women do! You have every opportunity in front of you, we don’t. Educational attainment is getting lower amongst men because the education system is constantly worried about how girls are doing. This halts the progress of men and there future options. While the vast majority of University graduates are female, your argument is nauseating.
This is the problem, feminists have created an imaginary idea of the ‘privileges’ of being male. They don’t exist! Not now, not ever.
You are quite simply wrong.
“I know of many men who have empathy too – and they have penises – result!”
Of course, history and literature is basically 75% men acting chivalrously! Men have great empathy, no better or worse than womens. Look in wartime, there are constantly stories of men jumping on top of grenades, sacrificing themselves to save the people around them. I personally met a man when I visited Portsmouth who took a bullet in Iraq attempting to shield a young boy from gunfire. Men have great empathy, but we have a different perspective on things. How can you expect men to be empathetic with women when theyir feelings are slightly hurt due to being told to “cheer up”?! I think the schoolyard is a great area of study to determine gender relations. One lad in my school hit a girl (after she insulted his dead dad, no doubt) and literally had about 60 lads waiting at back gates to kick his head in. Women are better protected than men are by other men. Patriarchy, after all, was established to protect women. In a society of 100 men and 100 women, 99 of the men can die and the society can still thrive, but not vice versa.
“I don’t ‘get’ why anyone would whistle at a woman (what’s the point – except to wind them up!? It’s not an uncommon reaction), groped, abused in any sense”
Once again, you’ve very sneakily equated wolf whistling (harmless and complimentary – if not slightly annoying for the more bitter women out there) with groping and abuse! Humans are animals like any other, and as such have mating rituals. It is the equivalent of peacocks showing there feathers. It isn’t inherently bad to express attraction towards women. What you see as being oppressive is actually a pretty friendly act. You are just determined to see the negative side of mens actions because you have subscribed to feminism. You will see any male action in the negative as it serves your pre-existing ideology. It is called the ‘confirmation bias’.
I see many narcistic and delusional womyn here who think that they are beautiful and entitled and should attract men “flies” wow i wont fucking kiss a disabled womyn, lolz but the laughing thing is even this disabled and handicap bitch thinks that she is something that men will die for, fuck you and fuck you all.
Comments like this REAALLLLY don’t help.
Note to all the men coming on here with a bunch of MRA stats etc
I support a lot of the same things as you, but please keep to the topic. It just makes us all look bad when you come on a topic about one specific issue and one specific research, but you post about 60,000 thousand other misandry issues.
One issue at a time fellas. Some of you even went into a general off-topic men vs. women, who sucks less debate. Stick to the topic.
YOU ARE HELPING MAN-HATERS when you do this fellas. When you come into a topic like this and post 50 page rants about unrelated things, all of the good ON-topic arguments get lost. So I beg you, stop it. One thing at a time.
Oh yeah, ‘cos Alek, you really had some good, strong arguments going there! Keep up the excellent work.
The day that you are a woman and experience these things is when any of us here will actually pay any kind of attention to your bullshit.
Awww…..and you were doing soooo well with all of your “on-topic arguments”…. : (
What a bunch of misandric narcissists. Despicable. And why universal suffrage was such a mistake.
To the men here: Don’t argue. Don’t posts stats. Don’t make a rational argument. This is not what this is about. It’s about irrationality. It’s about power. There’s no beneficent motive here that will respond to rational argument. Forget it. There’s only one way to deal with naughty women and children. Sitting them down and lecturing them is not the way. They don’t like it, we don’t like it; nobody wins.
You can help on an individual level–with your own women.
Can this study be considered in any way objective if it does not compare the male experience? I have been harassed many times while in public, almost always by women. Please do not make unfair generalizations about women’s experiences and how that may or may not relate to “female oppression” if you have not heard from the opposite gender.